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 GQ Electronic GMC-300 Works Great - Q/A 
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Deputy wrote:
Excellent! I just asked this question of KC about a metal roof affecting readings. Looks like it doesn't. Cool! 8-)


Harlan and I have talked about this before and notice how he said...

hey wrote:
This is my first test. It must be repeatable before I say that it is a fact that I will backup with data.


He did NOT say this is a fact. I believe what happened is that the outside beta levels available during his test were not enough at the time for the GMC-200 to detect. If this is what happened, his unit only seen gamma which yes would be seen both inside and out.

It is very common for people with geiger counters to use cover their geiger counter in order to verify different types of radiation being detected. How can this video be correct if what Harlan/"hey" suggested to be true? Pay close attention to 2:15 minutes in to the video. It says thin sheets of metal will stop beta radiation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSiNXBLfzK4

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MY OUTSIDE RADIATION MONITORING STATION:
South Beloit, Illinois - GMC200 Outside on HEPA air purifier, ground level, facing West.
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB5A139C


Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:39 pm
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KC: You are ASSUMING that all radiation is coming from the sky straight down. And since beta radiation is made up of electrons, as in cell phone radiation, it WILL pass through glass. Radiation travels in a straight line. But if that radiation is present on the side of your house near a window, and it is beta, a geiger should pick it up. And it won't be coming straight down :)

"Beta particles can go through a few metres of air. They can pass through paper and thin aluminium easily but they get stopped by even a thin piece of lead."
http://www.furryelephant.com/content/ra ... radiation/
So if a roof is made of aluminum, beta WILL go through it, depending on it's thickness.


Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:30 pm
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Deputy wrote:
KC: You are ASSUMING that all radiation is coming from the sky straight down. And since beta radiation is made up of electrons, as in cell phone radiation, it WILL pass through glass. Radiation travels in a straight line. But if that radiation is present on the side of your house near a window, and it is beta, a geiger should pick it up. And it won't be coming straight down :)

"Beta particles can go through a few metres of air. They can pass through paper and thin aluminium easily but they get stopped by even a thin piece of lead."
http://www.furryelephant.com/content/ra ... radiation/
So if a roof is made of aluminum, beta WILL go through it, depending on it's thickness.


First, I want to say that website you posted a llink to is impressive - thanks! 8-)

Second, no I am well aware of radiation that does not come straight down from the sky. Radon can come from the ground (well the sky too) and I have spoke about it on many times on this and other forums. I even own a radon mitigation pump and two digital radon only detectors. I do not believe I ever said your windows would stop beta radiation 100% but it will reduce the detection. As for your cell phone example. Are you suggesting that cell phone radiation is beta radiation? I have never before heard of non-ionizing radiation from cell phones described as beta radiation. Do you know that non-ionizing radiation is different than the Fukushima like radiation we are all mostly talking about, which is called ionizing radiation.

Here is a thread I started not long ago that helps answer many newbie questions. These were many of the same things that caused me problems in understanding radiation in the beginning and let me stress that I am in no way an expert. I still consider myself a newbie on the topic of radiation, because I learn something new about it everyday.

A Newbies Nuclear 101 Thread:
https://www.netc.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=364

As for the roof, I believe that would be a very thin roof. This information might help us:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particle

_________________
MY OUTSIDE RADIATION MONITORING STATION:
South Beloit, Illinois - GMC200 Outside on HEPA air purifier, ground level, facing West.
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB5A139C


Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:48 pm
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No, never meant that cellphone radiation was beta radiation. What I meant was, like beta radiation, cellphone radiation is made up of electrons. And electrons pass through windows.
Alpha radiation is ion radiation. That's why they call some types of smoke detectors "ion based". Cellphones are NOT ion-radiation producers. What I am saying is locating a geiger in a house may or may not limit it's effectiveness depending on where, exactly, it is located and the construction materials of the house. Since our major concern is gamma radiation, I don't think it really matters all that much whether geigers are located inside or outside.


Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:23 pm
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I want to stress again, I do not believe I ever said your windows would stop beta radiation 100% but it will reduce the detection. I have tested with my GMC-300 in my car on a rainy day that we were getting fallout and with my windows rolled up, I will get less CPM than rolled down. The test was repeatable too, I did it for my wife several times while sitting in the same spot. I keep trying to stress that if people want the best readings they can get, those readings will be outside the house. If the best you can do is inside the house, GREAT! I just don't want others to believe that inside and outside are both equal, because they are not.

Deputy wrote:
...Since our major concern is gamma radiation, I don't think it really matters all that much whether geigers are located inside or outside.


I believe Arnie Gundersen disagrees, he has more than 40-years of nuclear power engineering experience. Just today I listened to his podcast titled:

"Bridging the News Gap, with Professor Matt"
http://fairewinds.org/sites/fairewinds.org/files/podcast_September_26_2013.mp3

Start at audio marker 21.00 and you hear him talk about Krypton 85 from Fukushima and how this will be a BIG concern with this attempt this November to remove the spent fuel from the pool. Arnie even talks about how it has happened here in the U.S. at nuclear plants when they had to let the Krypton 85 gas go outside. He said there really is nothing you can do.

I looked up Krypton 85 and it seems the most common decay from Krypton 85 is beta. :shock:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krypton-85

I know what I can do....

I can make sure I have a geiger counter 24/7 monitoring station outside so my family can have a better chance to detect it. I can't forget to mention I am using the Raspberry Pi with the audio to alert me. 8-)

_________________
MY OUTSIDE RADIATION MONITORING STATION:
South Beloit, Illinois - GMC200 Outside on HEPA air purifier, ground level, facing West.
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB5A139C


Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:31 pm
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I read the Wiki link about Krypton 85. To be honest, I am not real worried. Consider this: There have been THOUSANDS of nuclear tests done since they set off the first one...

Between 1945 and 1997, there were 2,182 atomic tests worldwide. Plus two that were not tests, if you get my drift. ;)

There were 178 in 1963 alone. The United States conducted around 1,054 nuclear tests (by official count) between 1945 and 1992. The Soviet Union conducted 715 nuclear tests (by official count) between 1949 and 1990. Here's a list of all of them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_tests

My point? All those tests and we are all still alive and kicking. Granted, Chernobyl wasn't so nice. Neither was Fukishima, although the casualty list is surprisingly small (so far).

I am curious...just what, exactly, do you plan on doing if the geiger counters suddenly jump into the danger zone? Do you have a bomb shelter? Is it fully stocked with food, water, potassium pills, etc,? Would you be able to take an emergency vacation from work and live in the bomb shelter for who knows how long? Do you have protective clothing for when you have to leave the bomb shelter for a short period of time? (I DO have gas masks and filters that will protect me. Unfortunately, I don't have a nuke suit or a bomb shelter. :D )
Are you gonna jump in your vehicle and try and outrun it? Should be interesting to tell the cop at 3:30AM "But officer, I was speeding to avoid the radioactivity". I bet they never heard that one! :lol:


Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:47 pm
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Deputy wrote:
I read the Wiki link about Krypton 85. To be honest, I am not real worried. Consider this: There have been THOUSANDS of nuclear tests done since they set off the first one...

Between 1945 and 1997, there were 2,182 atomic tests worldwide. Plus two that were not tests, if you get my drift. ;)

There were 178 in 1963 alone. The United States conducted around 1,054 nuclear tests (by official count) between 1945 and 1992. The Soviet Union conducted 715 nuclear tests (by official count) between 1949 and 1990. Here's a list of all of them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_tests


From all my research and listening to experts in the nuclear field that DO NOT have their hand in the nuclear indu$try$ cookie jar, nuclear bomb vs. Fukushima fallout are not equal. A nuclear bomb is very powerful obviously in strength and although the fallout is not safe, the fallout caused from a dirty bomb can be much worse. I understand Fukushima falls in the dirty bomb category.

With so much dis-information/propaganda/lies out there, I can easily understand it causes people confusion. It caused me much confusion too in the beginning. In any case, I will continue to do my best to keep my family inside during high radiation levels and if needed they will attempt to drive away from any known incoming plume.

Since this thread has spun off the main topic of the GMC-300 question & answer, I will split parts of it in to a new topic of it's own sometime soon. I say this so if anyone comes to this thread looking for some of these posts and they are missing, that is the reason.

_________________
MY OUTSIDE RADIATION MONITORING STATION:
South Beloit, Illinois - GMC200 Outside on HEPA air purifier, ground level, facing West.
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB5A139C


Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:20 pm
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KC: I apologize for going OT. :(


Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:43 pm
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Deputy wrote:
KC: I apologize for going OT. :(


I only mentioned what I was going to do with the posts because I wanted people to know ahead of time, before they come up missing from this thread. Going OT is fine! I would rather people post off topic than be too scared to post at all. It is simple to split a post, plus this will allow me to then title the new thread to better match what you and I were talking most about in these previous replies. By doing this, we will allow others to easily read them. Often these people will have the same questions we just attempted to answer and they can use our answers as they wish. 8-)

_________________
MY OUTSIDE RADIATION MONITORING STATION:
South Beloit, Illinois - GMC200 Outside on HEPA air purifier, ground level, facing West.
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB5A139C


Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:10 pm
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